Family #10 – EKA Jacob Harrell 1818

Last Updated on 11 Apr 2021

In September 2009, a Harrell descendant of this line took the DNA test and his results matched the other Harrell lines. The donor knew his earliest known ancestor (EKA) was Jacob Harrell b. 1818 but several others at this time had reported without proof that Jacob 1818 was the son of “James M. Harrell” (some thought “M” was “Matthew”). These assertions that were repeated over several years initially convinced the Harrell research team that James M. Harrell was the father of Jacob 1818. If so, this qualified James M. Harrell to be the EKA of Family#10.

At this time, it was reported that James M. Harrell: was born 1790-1800 in KY; died Oct 28, 1846 Lagro, Wabash Co., IN; married “Sarah”, and had 3 children: Jacob Harrell 1818, Jesse Harrell 1822, and Sarah Harrell 1823. Additional details about these 3 children were reported as:

  1. Jacob Harrell, b. 1818 in what later became Decatur Co., IN, d. 1895 in Wabash Co., IN; m. Mary Ann Creamer (Cramer, Kramer) and had 7 children:
    1. Sarah Ann Harrell b. 1842, d. 1844;
    2. Daniel N. Harrell b. 1845 IN, d. 1881, m. Sarah Barnes in 1869 Wabash Co., IN
    3. Francis Marion Harrell b. 1848 IN, d.1865;
    4. Phillip Thomas Harrell b. 1849 Fayette Co., IN, d.1940 Wabash Co., IN; m. (1) Matilda Brechner 1851-1916 on 9/13/1877, and (2) Luella Williams Holt on 6/26/1918; Children of Phillip include:
      1. Ludlow Harrell, 1877-1957, m. 1907 Grace Oftelie b. 1886, d. 1937
      2. Elmer Harrell, 1879-1963, m. 1909 Anna Brubaker b. 1887, d. 1955
      3. Omer Harrell who died in infancy, age a few months
      4. Charles Harrell, 1881-1947, m. 1917 Laura Cozad b.1895, d.1981
      5. Jacob John Harrell, 1885-1960, m. 1909 Ruth Wilcox b. 1887, d. 1970
      6. Rose Ellen Harrell, 1887-1979, m. 1904 Dorsey Logan Smith b. 1884, d. 1966
      7. Mary Ann Harrell, 1889-1966, m. 1909 Reuben Hipskind b. 1887, d. 1962
      8. Franklin Gabriel Harrell, 1891-1953, m. 1916 Fern Leona Powell b. 1896, d. 1972
    5. Mary Etta Harrell b. 1853 IN, d. 1901, m. James H. Barnes (1838-1918);
    6. Martha Jane Harrell b. 1857 IN, d. 1928 Wabash Co., IN, m. John W. Burton 1884 of Chester Township in Wabash Co., IN, son of James Burton;
    7. James Matthew Harrell b. 1857 Wabash Co., IN, d. 1942 Wabash Co., IN, twin to Martha, m. Rose E. “Dolly” Burton 1885 Wabash Co., IN; daughter of James Burton
  2. Jesse Harrell b. 1822 in Decatur Co., IN;
  3. Sarah Harrell b. 1823 probably in Decatur Co, IN, m. Unknown Abbot;

After considerable time researching this James M. Harrell, it is now believed that he is not the father of Jacob Harrell 1818, or Jesse 1822, or Sarah 1823. In fact, the parents, siblings and children of James M. Harrell are not currently known. Previous thoughts expressed by others (many posted on ancestry message boards) that supported James M. Harrell as father of the 3 children included the following:

  1. One person whose husband descended from Jacob 1818 stated without proof that James M. Harrell lived in Decatur Co., IN when Jacob 1818 was born (but Decatur was not declared a county until 1821) and the supporting information came from the Huntington Library – but the source was never found. The identity of the 3 children of James M. Harrell was reported as coming from another individual without supporting evidence.
  2. Another person whose husband also descends from Jacob 1818 reported her info about James M. Harrell came from some website but none was provided.
  3. And yet another person claimed the father of James M. Harrell was Moses Harrell b. 1802, son of Noah Harrell who is son of Moses Sr. In fact, Moses 1802 married Rebecca Scott in 1821 and there is no record of Moses having a son James M. Harrell.

James M. Harrell died intestate (having no Will) in Wabash Co., IN in 1846; his estate was described in probate records (death date determined from probate records). The probate records identified “Sarah” as the spouse of James M. Harrell and “Jacob Harrell” as the administrator of James’ estate. “Jacob Harrell” was NOT identified in the probate records as a son of James M. Harrell. Appraisers of the estate were Moses and William Crume, sons of Daniel Crume who is son of Phillip Crume Sr of Nelson Co., KY.

It has also not been confirmed where James M. Harrell lived before he moved to Wabash Co., IN and no document could be found that identified his birth year. A birth year range 1790-1800 was cited on one of the early internet postings but no source was provided.

No evidence has been found confirming James’ 3 children cited above (viz., Jacob, Jesse, Sarah). “Sarah 1823” is currently believed to be Sarah Creamer who married (1) James Harrell in 1842, and (2) Jordan Abbott in 1850. This Sarah Creamer is the daughter of Daniel Creamer who is also the father of Mary Creamer who is the spouse of Jacob Harrell 1818 (see 1850 Clinton, Decatur Co., IN census with Daniel Creamer as head of household). The parents/siblings of Sarah Creamer’s first husband James Harrell are not known.

The other reported child of James M. Harrell, “Jesse Harrell 1822”, is believed to be Jesse Ray Harrell b. 1822 Decatur Co., IN (or KY), d. abt 1855 IN, married Mary Ann Ward in 1842 in Decatur Co., IN. Jesse’s children are believed to be (1) Phillip Edward Harrell b. 1843, Williamstown, Decatur Co., IN, d. 1927 Argos, Marshall Co., IN; (2) Sarah Catherine Harrell b. 1844 Williamstown, Decatur Co., IN; (3) Mary Jane Harrell b. 1845 IN, d. aft 1880; (4) James William Harrell b. 1847 Williamstown, Decatur Co., IN, d. 1910 Decatur Co., IN; (5) Almira B. Harrell b. 1851, Decatur Co., IN, d. aft. 1900, m. second time to William Stiers in 1894; (6) Winnie/Minnie Annabell Harrell b. 1855 Williamstown, Decatur Co., IN, d. 1922 Argos, Marshall Co., IN. The parents of Jesse Ray Harrell are believed to be Phillip Harrell b. 1787 who is speculated to be a son of James Harrell Jr. (see discussion of Phillip Harrell 1787 in Family#5).

In spite of the many uncertainties surrounding James M. Harrell, it is believed the information about Jacob Harrell 1818 is relatively solid. Rebecca Burton, whose husband descended from Jacob 1818, identified the children of Jacob 1818 as listed above. Some of these children were also identified in the “1901 Biographical Memoirs of Wabash County”, pg. 494-496, under “J. M. Harrell” who is James Mathew Harrell, son of Jacob 1818.

Rebecca Burton also reported that Jacob Harrell was born July 29, 1818 in Indiana in Indian held territory in the area that would become Decatur Co., IN. Jacob spent his entire life in Indiana. He learned the trade of a machinist and practiced it for many years before engaging in agriculture in 1845 when he purchased land in Lagro, Wabash Co., IN. In the 1850 Lagro, Wabash Co. census he was listed as a cabinet maker with real estate worth $500. Later on he bought a farm and in the 1860 census he was living north of Lagro (Chester area?) and was listed as a farmer with 6 children; he died there on April 13, 1895.

Jacob 1818 married Mary Ann Creamer on 13 January 1842 in Decatur Co., IN and moved from Decatur Co. to Lagro, Wabash Co., IN in 1845. Mary Ann Creamer was born September 20, 1820 in OH and was the daughter of Daniel Creamer and Anna Smysor/Smyer. It is believed Jacob and Mary Ann Creamer Harrell had 7 children, all of whom are identified in the list above. Mary Ann Creamer Harrell died on March 4, 1906. Both Jacob and his spouse Mary are buried in the Hopewell Cemetery in Lagro, Wabash Co., IN.

It is worth noting that in the 1860 Lagro, Wabash Co., IN census for Jacob “Harrall” it lists the following individuals: “Jacob 41, Mary A. 39, Danl 16, Frank M. 13, Thos 11, Mary E. 6, Matilda J. 3, Martha 3”. In this census the twins, age 3, are females and identified as Matilda J. and Martha. A reliable source descending from Jacob 1818 and one of these twins reports these twins are actually “Martha J.” and “James Matthew”. There is no other document confirming both twins are females. In addition, there is a Find-A-Grave posting showing James Matthew Harrell b. 1857 Urbana, Wabash Co., IN, d. August 13, 1942, spouse Rosa E. Harrell, parents Jacob Harrell and Mary Ann Harrell. Perhaps the most telling of documents explaining the error in the 1860 census is a marriage document between Mathew J. Harrell and Rosa E. Burton. So the twins are fraternal and in the 1860 census “Matilda J.” is actually “Matthew J. Harrell”.

Further research into Jacob 1818 has led to speculation that his father is Gabriel Harrell as discussed in Family#5. Pertinent material from Family#5 as related to Gabriel Harrell is repeated herein:

The first known mention of Gabriel Harrell is found in the “Early Ohio Settlers” book (discussed in Family#5) where it states Gabriel Harrell was living in Franklin Co., IN in 1816 (the year Indiana became a state) and purchased land in the Gore Area of Indiana. Gabriel Harrell is found as head of household in both the 1820 Laughery, Dearborn Co., IN census, and in the 1830 Decatur Co., IN census. He died in Decatur Co. on/before 1839 because his probate records were filed in 1839. From census records his birth is calculated to be somewhere between 1780 and 1790; without supporting evidence, 1789 will be his assumed birth year.

It should be noted there is another person named Gabriel Harrell who lived in Wayne Co., IN – he came to Indiana from the Nansemond, VA/Bertie Co., NC area. He was a Quaker who is referenced in an early Quaker meeting held in NC. The parents of this Gabriel are Thomas Harrell and “Amy”. This Gabriel Harrell living in Wayne Co., IN descends from a different Harrell group with roots in NC who are not blood related to Northern Virginia Harrell families (see Family#5 in the Harrell Collaborative for additional details on these NC Harrell families).

The 1820 Dearborn Co., IN census lists Gabriel with 3 males under 10 (born 1810-1819), 1 male 26-under 45 years old (b.1775-1794), and 1 female 10-under 16 years old (born 1805-1810). In the 1830 Decatur Co., IN census it lists Gabriel with 2 males 5-under 10 years old (born 1821-1825), 2 males 10-under 15 years old (born 1816-1820), 1 male 40-under 50 years old (born 1781-1790), 1 female 15-under 20, and 1 female 40-under 50 years old (born 1781-1790). In the 1840 Decatur Co., IN census it shows Rachel “Herrall” (widow of Gabriel) as head of household living with 1 male 15-under 20 years old (born 1821-1825) and 2 males 20-under 30 (born 1810-1820); Rachel was born 1781-1790. The census records do not indicate Gabriel owning any slaves.

Records show Gabriel 1789 married Rachel Toombs on 20 May 1825 in Decatur Co., IN. Rachel was the second spouse of Gabriel. Gabriel’s first wife may have been “Sarah” b. abt. 1795 IN, d. bef. 1820 but the source of this info has not been confirmed and caution is advised.

From Gabriel’s 1839 probate records, there were 3 male Harrells who purchased Gabriel’s appraised assets from his estate: Jacob, John and James. In subsequent probate declarations dealing with the estate’s final distribution, these 3 Harrells were identified as Gabriel’s sons.

Earlier records show Rachel Bridges married Conrad Tomes/Tombs/Toombs (both “natives of Pennsylvania”) about 1811 and they had 2 or 3 children; one was Joseph Tomes who eventually moved to Rush Co., IN, and another child was Sarah or Sally Ann Tombs b. 1812 OH who married Moses Crume in Decatur Co. in 1831. Conrad Toombs died about 1818 in Dearborn, IN. Moses and Sally Ann Tombs Crume had children Joseph H. A. Crume b. 1834 and William A. Crume b. 1835. In the 1850 Lagro, Wabash Co., IN census (after Gabriel had died), it shows head of household Moses A. Crume 42 with spouse Sarah A. Crume 38 and living with them were their children Joseph Crume 17 and William A. Crume 15; also living with them was Rachel Herald 67 who was born PA. Living next door was Jacob Harrell 1818 and his spouse Mary Creamer Harrell. Sarah A. Crume must have died after 1850 as her widowed husband Moses A. Crume married Sarah’s sister Mary Ann (married name Rencker) in 1853. Moses A. Crume married again in 1858, for the third time, to Rachel Taylor in Wabash Co., IN.

Without solid proof it is believed Gabriel’s son “Jacob” is Jacob Harrell 1818 who married Mary Ann Creamer. Jacob 1818 would fit the age of Gabriel’s children as listed in Gabriel’s 1820 and 1830 census records; Jacob Harrell is listed as a son of Gabriel as stated in Gabriel’s probate records, and Jacob 1818 would fit the 1840 Decatur Co. census record with Rachel as head of household living with 3 sons.

The birth date of Gabriel’s other son “John” is not documented but it seems credible that this son “John” is John H. Harrell, age 28, listed as head of household with spouse “Sarah” age 31 years old in the 1850 Clinton Twp., Decatur Co., IN census. In addition to John H. Harrell and spouse Sara, also listed in this census were their children and Elizabeth Harrell age 52 (born 1798). Their children were listed as Eliza F. Harrell 6 and Almira T. From this census, John Harrell age 28 was born about 1822 and his spouse “Sarah” born about 1819. John Harrell 1822 would fit the age range of Gabriel’s children as listed in the 1830 census. John Harrell 1822 could also be living with Rachel Harrell (head of household) in the 1840 Decatur Co., IN census.

In the 1850 Clinton, Decatur Co., IN census, Elizabeth Harrell age 52 born about 1798, living with John H. Harrell, has not been identified. Gabriel does not show a spouse in the 1820 Dearborn Co., IN census, and he married Rachel Toombs in 1825. Elizabeth 1798 could be the mother of John H. but, if so, the 3 young sons of Gabriel who were born 1810-1819 and the 1 female born 1805-1810 as listed in the 1820 census would indicate Elizabeth gave birth at a very early age and separated from Gabriel before 1820. This scenario is possible but not likely, therefore the relationship between Elizabeth and John H. Harrell remains unknown.

Nothing reliable is known about Gabriel Harrell’s other son “James” as identified in Gabriel’s probate records; and the name of Gabriel’s 4th son as identified in the 1830 census remains unknown.

Living next to this John Harrell 1822 in the 1850 census was Phillip Harrell 62 years old (born 1787/88 ), born KY, his spouse Catharine and children Nancy 31, Hannah 25, Mary A. 20, Catharine 17, and Philip 14. This Phillip Harrell 1787 is believed to be a brother of Gabriel and is one of the Butler Co., OH cluster of Harrells (viz., Phillip, William, Nancy Jane, Jesse). Living close to Phillip Harrell 1787 might indicate John Harrell 1822 could be a son of Phillip but there is no evidence that Phillip Harrell 1787 had a son named “John” (Phillip 1787 left a Will that identified all his children). To further support the idea that John 1822 was closely related to Phillip Harrell 1787, Phillip’s Will shows his daughter is Sarah Harrell Pope who is the spouse of William J. Pope. It is believed that John Harrell 1822 married Sarah Pope b. 1819 who is the sister of William J. Pope.

John Harrell 1822 was listed in the 1860 Clinton, Decatur Co., IN census as “J. H. Herrel”, 39 yrs old, with spouse “Mary” (believed to be his second wife), Almira 11, Mary 6 (surname Higgins from Mary’s first marriage), Albert 7 (Higgins), Jas 3 (Higgins), Jane Calvin 42 b. KY (Phillip Marion Harrell, son of Philip Harrell 1787, married Sarah Calvin, daughter of Jane Calvin). John 1822 is also speculated to be “John H. Harrell” in the Civil War Draft Registrations Records 1863-1865 – showing his birth abt 1823 IN, occupation “shoemaker”, living in Williamstown, Decatur Co., IN, age 40 in 1863. In the Find-a-Grave website for John H. Harrell, it shows his birth to be July 9, 1822, death December 10, 1894, spouse Mary E. Harrell, buried in Star Baptist Cemetery in Adams, Decatur Co., IN.

From Family#5, it was speculated that James Harrell Jr. was living in Laughery, Dearborn Co., IN in 1820; also living in Laughery was Gabriel and Phillip Harrell. Living in nearby Caeser Creek in Dearborn Co in 1820 was Jesse Harrell b. abt 1780-1790. Because Phillip, Jesse and William Harrell were living in Butler Co., OH before 1820, coupled with other circumstantial evidence discussed in Family#5, it is speculated that James Harrell Jr. is the father of Gabriel, Phillip, Jesse, and William Harrell (who is the EKA in Family#11). In addition, Moses Harrell 1803 (Family#12) is also speculated to be a son of James Harrell Jr. Although there is little supporting evidence, it is possible James M. Harrell (Family#10) is also a son of James Harrell Jr. or closely related to him in some way.

In summary, the father of EKA Jacob Harrell 1818 is believed to be (no solid proof) Gabriel Harrell b. 1780-1790 who is believed to be (no solid proof) the son of James Harrell Jr. (who is son of James Harrell Sr., who is son of Richard Harrell 1700 in Family#5). Being born 1780-1790 and son of James Harrell Jr., it seems probable that Gabriel was born in KY. From Gabriel’s probate records the brothers of Jacob 1818 are believed to be John H. Harrell 1822 and James Harrell (no knowledge of James’ spouse or children).

Welcome to the Harrell Collaborative Forums Family #10 – EKA Jacob Harrell 1818

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    • Cathie Harrell Fox posted #686

      The Philip Harrell b.1787 Nelson Co. Ky  who married  Catherine Reading (Redding) in Butler Co. in 1812 is the family that I am related. It has been a mystery determining who Philip Harrell b. 1787  father might been. Earlier family genealogist found his will, but no sources confirming Philip’s father . One hypothesis was/is that Jame Harrell Sr. b.1747 Nasemond Co., Va and died 1817 Nelson Co. hence my interest Harrell’s  of Decatur Co.  My  family  lived in the Walnut Creek twp, Argo, Indiana  area. In addition the mention of the family  “Crume” caught my eye. This family name sold land to Philip Harrell 1787 . If you have not seen the Crume-Family :Three Generations by Rick Crume 1995 it is interesting reading. It mentions James Harrell’s marriage to Elizabeth Crume  1783 and other valuable information.

      Also  does the M. in James M. Harrell stand for Marion?

    • Bill Thielbahr posted #701

      Hi Cathie – I am Bill Thielbahr and helped put together the 14 Harrell family piece including Family #10.  As my discussion about Family #10 states, this particular group of Harrells living in Butler Co., OH in the 1805-1815 timeframe has puzzled us for a long time.  We know that in this group of Harrells,  Chester Harrell is directly related (DNA match) to my Harrell line.  I do not know how Phillip, Nancy Jane, Jesse, Gabriel, and William are linked.  The name “Phillip” is rarely seen in my Harrell line, Gabriel is also not seen, Jesse is found occasionally, and Nancy and William are common.  From the description of the 14 families, you will only see Phillip in Family #10 and Family #12 and we don’t know how they are linked.

      My long-time genealogy colleague has put together a list of children of your Phillip Harrell who married Catherine Reading: (1) James H. Harrell b. 1814 Butler Co. d. bef 1870 Decatur Co., IN; (2) William Harrell b. 1815 Dearbon Co., d. bef 1880 Decatur Co.; (3) Nancy Harrell b. 1819 Dearborn Co.; (4) Jesse Ray Harrell b. 1822 probably Decatur Co., d. bef 1860 IN; (5) Sarah A. Harrell b. 1823 IN; (6) Hannah Harrell b. 1825 Dearborn or Decatur Co, m. W.W. McKay or John H. Patton; (7) Mary A. Harrell b. 1830 Decatur Co; (8) Catherine Harrell b. 1833, Decatur Co., m. Henry Patton; (9) Philip Marion Harrell, b. Feb 1836, Decatur Co.  If any of this info is incorrect or incomplete, please let me know.  I don’t know which branch of this family you descend from but I have been in contact with a descendant of Phillip Marion Harrell and he also does not know of Phillip’s siblings or parents.

      You asked if the “M” in the EKA James M. Harrell could be “Marion”.  It’s possible but because we have no credible source for this middle initial being “M”, we have since decided to completely remove his middle name and cite “James Harrell” as this EKA.  If we obtain more info  supporting a middle name, we will add it back in.

      You have the same problem we have – we also don’t know Phillip’s parents and don’t know his siblings.  Do you have any guesses as to who his siblings might be?  Any of them?  We have seen that often the Harrells travel together or ultimately live near each other and knowing what property they purchased helps identify relatives who may have lived next/near them.  Do you have any info on where Phillip lived (specifically, deed descriptions) and who his neighbors were?  Except for his first child, James H. Harrell, all children were born in either Dearborn or Decatur Co.

      The naming of Harrell children often gives us clues as to close relatives.  If we have his first child identified correctly, James H. Harrell, this usually reflects the father’s father.  In this case we could speculate that Phillip’s father is James Harrell.  You have speculated that Phillips father could be James Harrell 1747 Nansemond Co. d. 1817 Nelson Co.  Over the last 15 years of doing Harrell research, along with others, we have determined that the large group of Harrells with roots in Nansemond Co., VA and neighboring Bertie Co., NC were never in contact with the smaller group of Northern VA Harrells (my Harrell line) – they didn’t live near each other and the DNA of both groups are different.  Many Harrell researchers who have not studied these 2 groups of Harrells often mix them up and create a lot of misinformation.  So, with this in mind, I don’t believe that Phillip’s father was from Nansemond, but he could be the “James” that died in Nelson Co. in 1817.   Or, his father could be from Nansemond but never lived in Nelson – if this were the case, the Harrell DNA would be different than those of the 14 families.  If you have the identity of this James who died in Nelson Co. in 1817, I would like to know it.  There are many, many James Harrells who lived in Nelson Co. and its vicinity in this timeframe.

      In our research of these Butler Co. Harrells, and other Harrells of Indiana, my colleague and I have speculated that there could be an unknown James Harrell, the father of many of these early Harrells in Butler Co., Decatur, Dearborn.  Unfortunately, there are so many unknown early James Harrells, that we can’t identify him.  It remains pure speculation.

      I was thrilled to see you respond to this new Harrell Collaboration website.  We have finished our 3 generations of Family #1 and nearly finished with Family #2.  We are now working on Family #3.  We want to limit our effort to just the first 3 generations of each Family EKA so as to get the info out as quickly as possible.  We have more generations of info on each family and in time will add it to the Collaboration.  Our focus is to try and find info that links these 14 families and anything you can provide will help.

      Best Regards,   Bill Thielbahr

    • Cathie Harrell Fox posted #702

      Yes, I do have a hypothesis. A distant cousin started on our family side almost 20 years ago with his Grandmother, my Great Aunt. He was convinced that James Harrell b. 1747 Nansemond Co. Va and d. 1831 in Nelson Co. KY. I too believe that evaluation. Difficulty is with sources and documentation. One journal published by the Crume family confirms association with the Harrell family. The following excerpts might explain:

      The Crume Family: Three Generations, January 1995, By Rick Crume, 131 130th St S Glyndon, MN 56547-9551

      Elizabeth Crume, 19 April 1762,87 probably in Frederick County, Virginia; died after 16 April 1801 when her father wrote his will,88 and perhaps before 1810 in Nelson County, Kentucky. She was married 25 March 1783 in Shenandoah County, Virginia, to James Herrell who may have been the James Harrell/Herrold who appears in Nelson County, Kentucky a couple of years later. Various spellings of the name James Harrell appear in the Nelson County tax lists for the years 1785 to 1789.89 A James Herrold living northeast of Bardstown was listed in the 1789 Nelson County, Kentucky, militia list.90 A James Herrold shows up in the Nelson County tax list of 16 November 179291 and a James Harrell appears on the 1800 list92 dated 30 August, the same date recorded for other members of the Crume family who migrated from Virginia to Kentucky in about 1794 to 1795. And a James Harrell was enumerated in the 1810 and 1820 censuses of Nelson County. The 1810 census shows one male over age 45, five males ages 16 to 26 and two females ages 10 to 16, but no female over age 16. Apparently his wife had died before this census. In 1831 a James Herral of Nelson County deeded Negro children named Jason and Hanny to his daughter Lear Gibbs of Davis County, Kentucky. He also deeded three Negroes, Mary, Margaret and Elizabeth, to his granddaughters, Nancy and Margaret Herral, heirs of James Herral, Jr., deceased, of Shelby County, Kentucky.93

      86Nelson Co., KY, Will Book E:198-200. 87Family Bible record of Philip Crume. 88Nelson Co., KY, Will Book A-1:470. 89Margaret Johnson Schroeder, Residents of Nelson County, Virginia (Now Kentucky) Recorded in Tithable and Tax Lists (Bardstown, KY: Schroeder, c. 1988) vol. 1 (1785-1791). 90Research by Lucy B. (Allen) Geoghegan, Bardstown, KY. 91Charles Brunk Heinemann, First Census of Kentucky, 1790 (1940; reprint, Baltimore: Genealogical Publ. Co., 1981). This is not the 1790 census, but a compilation of tax lists. 92Garrett Glenn Clift, Second Census of Kentucky: a Privately Compiled and Published Enumeration of Tax Payers Appearing in the 79 Manuscript Volumes Extant of Tax Lists of the 42 Counties of Kentucky in Existance in 1800 (Frankfort, KY: KY Hist. Soc., 1954). 93Nelson Co., KY, Deed Book 18:390. 94Family Bible record of Philip Crume. 95Nelson Co., KY, Administrators Bond, p. 59.

      With this information and knowing that the Philip Crume was the father of Elizabeth, I think there is a possibility that the above couple might be the father of Philip Harrell b. 1787 Nelson Co. KY. He later married Catherine Redding and settled on property that he bought from Daniel Crume in 1828 who happened to be Elizabeth Crume Harrell’s brother. In addition, a valid explanation of the unusual occurrence of the family name “Philip” that has riddled my side of the Harrell family.

      The following is also from Crume Family: Three Generations:

      “In 1821 Daniel bought land in Clinton Township, Decatur County, Indiana, and in the next year’s county elections he was a candidate for associate judge.76 He and his wife Hannah sold the land in Decatur County on 20 March 1827 to Phillip Harrell.77 She signed the deed. It’s the last record we have of the couple and we don’t know where they moved or when they died.”

      As for the relationship between “James Harrell b. 1747 and Chester Harrell son of William Harrell b. 1728 and married Susannah Chester “James and William Harrell are brothers and sons of Richard Harrell Jr. b. 1675. Our distant cousin had made this evaluation. In my DNA summary, Philip D.2 Crume (Daniel1). On 23 December 1749 is present.

      Finally, the Philip Harrell b. 1787 had a son named Jesse Ray Harrell b. 1813 in KY (presumed Nelson Co.) married Mary Ward b. 1816, whose son Philip Edward Harrell b. 1883 is my Great Grandfather.

      Philip Marion Harrell, son of Philip Harrell b. 1787 was in the Civil War.

      At the moment my father who is a Harrell is having his DNA done. Should prove interesting. Do tell me more or what I might do to help. It is very puzzling to get the sources for confirmation.

    • Bill Thielbahr posted #715

      Cathie – Very interesting info you provided.  First off, I have read all of the Crume 3 generations and thought the part about Elizabeth Crume and James Herrell included a variety of James Harrell/Herrell individuals that the author clearly didn’t understand.  There were more than 1 James Harrells living in Nelson Co.: (1) James Harrell b. probably in the 1730s or early 1740s,  the s/o Richard Harrell b. abt 1700 (you cite 1765 which reflects an earlier Richard Harrell) who came to Nelson around 1780 (I have his land warrant); (2) James Jr. whom we can’t prove might be the son of James Harrell Sr. (s/o Richard 1700); (3) James Harrell, the son of William b. in the 1730s in Frederick/Augusta Co., VA who is s/o Richard 1700; and (4) James Harell b. 1762 who is son of Moses who is s/o Richard 1700.  I also have the tax lists and census info from early KY.

      I see where you are convinced that James Harrell b. 1747 in Nansemond came to Nelson Co.  Putting aside my thinking that this Nansemond connection could not have happened, I am interested in why you think this James Harrell was b. 1747 – this is very important in narrowing the choices of who this James Harrell might link to.

      You have included info I had not known about:  “In 1831 a James Harral of Nelson County deeded Negro children named Jason and Hanny to his daughter Leer Gibbs of Davis Co., KY.  He also deeded 3 Negroes Mary, Margaret and Elizabeth to his granddaughters Nancy and Margaret Harral heirs of James Herral Jr., deceased of Shelby Co., KY.”  I don’t know, at this time, which James Herral Jr. this is.

      When you say “I think there is a possibility that the above couple might be the father of Phillip Harrell b. 1787” – I think you mean the “couple” enumerated in the 1810/1820 Nelson census – is this correct?

      You explain “the relationship between ‘James Harrell b. 1747 and Chester Harrell son of William Harrell b. 1728 and married Susannah Chester’.  You believe James and William Harrell are brothers and sons of Richard Harrell Jr. b. 1675.  I didn’t understand your reference to “On 23 December 1749 is present.” – who was present for what?  The James Harrell you reference as b. 1747 could not be the son of Richard because all 6 sons of Richard were “of age” by 1758 when Richard divided his property among his 6 sons.  Not being sure of the birth of this James Harrell is understood because it takes a deep understanding of Richard Harrell b. abt 1700 and his sons which most people don’t invest in.  You are correct in having James as a brother to William who did marry Susannah Chester in about 1750, before William and his brothers James and Moses left for KY around 1780.

      So as I understand what your distant cousin believed, the father to your Phillip Harrell b. 1787 is probably James Harrell s/o Richard Harrell (you say b. 1765) of Frederick/Augusta Co.   Based on records of Augusta/Frederick Co., VA, we believe most of the 6 sons of Richard Harrell were born in the 1730s and if James was born in this timeframe it is possible he could have had a son Phillip b. 1787 but not highly probable.  It seems more probable that perhaps James’ son James Jr. could be the father of Phillip 1787.  Then, again, this James could be s/o William; this James born abt 1752 and died maybe Nelson Co. at date unknown.  Then, again, this James could be s/o Moses (who is s/o Richard) who was b. abt 1762 and died about 1836 in Daviess Co., KY and married Eliz Crume (and we think started having children around 1784).

      This is the difficulty I, and others face, when trying to separate the different James Harrells.  There is a story you might recall about a Rev War James Harrell who obtained 200 acres of land in Nelson Co. for his service.  Some think this Rev War soldier came from Nansemond – but the supporting evidence is missing.  Yes, there was a Rev. War soldier named James Harrell and yes, there was a James Harrell from Nansemond, and yes, there was 200 acres given to a Rev. War soldier James Harrell, but some connect the dots in the wrong way.  I have studied this Rev War soldier and the 200 acres and I’m convinced he was not from Nansemond (Hellyn Carrier, dec’d, did research on the Harrells of this area and it was her (incorrect) opinion that this James came from Nansemond – that is probably where your distant cousin developed his thinking).  The 200 acres happens to be located near where William Harrell (s/o Richard) lived in Nelson Co. and was later traded for land in OH – this William Harrell owned over 1000 acres.

      For your information, before you responded to our Harrell Collaboration, it was our wild speculation that the father of Philllip, and a few other Harrells, was a James Harrell.  We just don’t know which James Harrell he is.

      You have given me new info to study: In 1831 James Herral of Nelson deeded slaves to his daughter Lear Gibbs of Daviess Co., KY and also deeded slaves to his granddaughters Nancy and Margaret Herral, heirs of James Herral Jr. dec’d of Shelby Co.  I need to identify who this James Herral is.  Many thanks for this information.  – Bill Thielbahr


    • Bill Thielbahr posted #735

      Hello Cathie – My colleague found the document wherein James Herral deeds his slaves to daughter Lear Herral Gibbs and to his granddaughters Nancy and Margaret, heirs of James Herral Junior.  This James Herral b. abt 1762 VA, d. abt 1836 Daviess Co., KY is son of Moses Harrell (s/o Richard Harrell 1700) and married Elizabeth Crume.  This James Herral 1762 had a son James D. Harrell b. abt 1784 VA, d. bef 1831 Nelson Co., KY who is the father of Margaret and Nancy.  Still no answer as to the father of your Phillip Harrell.

      About your father taking the DNA test.  I hope he is taking the test through FamilyTreeDNA as they have the largest databank of Harrell DNA donors.  I also hope he requested (paid for) at least 37 DNA markers.  I am one of the co-administrators of this Harrell DNA databank if you need further info.    Bill Thielbahr

    • Cathie Harrell Fox posted #740

      This is exciting! You must understand that I am by no means closed to any thoughts of conviction of my family lineage. I am thrilled to see all the information that you have developed and shared.  With this in mind I will try and answer some of your questions that you have posed. Bare in mind that my family history  of the Harrell’s up to and including all those prior to 1840’s is a maze of pieces that were put together by others that I am spring boarding my research to pursue credible sources. Hence my suggestion of Philip Harrell b. 1787 Bardstown, KY and his affiliation/relation to Crume family and the name “Philip” (possible parents James Herral b. ??? — according to Crume documentation).

      Q. When you say “I think there is a possibility that the above couple might be the father of Phillip Harrell b. 1787” – I think you mean the “couple” enumerated in the 1810/1820 Nelson census – is this correct?


      You have expressed many thoughts, but as usual: puzzle pieces provide only questions to lead to “the answer”.

      As for Gabriel Harrell have you looked into “U.S., Encyclopedia of American Quaker Genealogy, Vol I-VI, 1607-1943” In the Indiana Wayne Chester Monthly Meeting I found mention of Gabriel Harrell. In addition, b. 8-12-1776  son of Thomas b. ??? and Amey Harrell (b.1751; d.1821 11-19; bur. Woodbury).

      As for my father’s DNA, it is being done on FamilyTree DNA with 37 markers. It was submitted in April with several dates of completion that have been postponed. Presently the projected date is sometime in July. I certainly hope there are no more delays since my father is in his late 80s and not in good health.

      Since I am not familiar with the science of DNA, I will mention that his DNA may not be what you are in need of. My Grandfather and Grandmother Harrell are first cousins. Grandfather Merton Harrell’s mother was a Harrell, but father unknown. He was left with his Grandfather Philip Edward Harrell (b. 1843) living in Argos, Indiana. My Grandmother Ruth Harrell’s mother was a Harrell too. I pursued the DNA to determine my late Grandfather Merton Harrell’s father. Although it was on the birth certificate, his first name must be a nickname.

      Since I have retired, I was able to go to the National Archives in DC, but didn’t find anything of value. My next trip out, I will look closer to Va. counties specifically Frederick, and or Augusta. As I find other items of interest in my research, I volley a discussion with you. You provide a wealth of information!

    • Bill Thielbahr posted #747

      Hi Cathie – I have more info re James Harrell but can’t send it now (other duties are required). But, my colleague Hazel has followed your postings and has the following question for you starting with a statement you made in your last posting:

      “I pursued the DNA to determine my late Grandfather Merton Harrell’s father. Although it was on the birth certificate, his first name must be a nickname.”

      Hazel’s question is:

      Would you please ask Cathie the name listed on the birth certificate. I have Merton’s father as William Alonzo “Lou/Lon” Alderfer 1879. I have Merton’s mother as Clara Ruth Harrell 1886.

      I await your response. Bill

    • Cathie Harrell Fox posted #749

      Hi Hazel, (I have a distance cousin named Hazel but nicknamed Merty)

      You have a question related to my Grandpa Merton Harrell’s father. Is that correct? If so that is the difficulty. Clara Harrell  Alderfer Rosebaum married Alderfer after Grandpa (Merton) was born. I never found the divorce papers but I did find Clara’s marriage to him. I even made a trip over to Marshal Co. Historic Society in Indiana to see if they might have a record of any Harrell or the divorce papers. The librarian couldn’t find anything, but stated that her mother knew the Harrell family. The librarian mentioned that they had nicknames…Kutch (Jesse) Harrell, but no divorce papers for Clara Harrell and Lonny Alderfer (I have a picture of his family). On the birth certificate I sent away for, and also a birth certificate copy my Aunt Jo had, all indicate that Lonny Alderfer wasn’t the father. I will note that he and his parents were living in Philip E. and Lucetta Harrell’s house in census. Grandpa Merton’s father was a secret until Grandma Ruth died. A copy of birth certificate stating Grandpa Merton’s real father as Bulber Dunnell and an affidavit that Grandma Clara Harrell Alderfer Rosebaum signed on April 29, 1942 stating Bulber Dunnell as the father. I have since found Donnell, ODonnell, and Donnely as possible spellings. A sidebar to this is: On Grandpa Merton’s birth certificate his name was: Dowan Dunnell born in Starke Co., San Pierre, Indiana.  My Mom told me Grandpa Merton was born at “Poor Hand Maidens for Jesus Christ”. With all of this information no one seems to know who Donnell or Dunnell might be. Hazel do you? Have a good day! What is your interest in my Grandparents?

    • Hazel Bonner posted #762

      Hi Cathy – I am helping Bill and John research the Harrells with matching DNA.  My great grandmother was a Harrell.  I saw your Grandpa Merton listed as Murton Dtain Aldafee in the 1910 Marshall Co., IN census.  So I assumed he was the son of Clara Ruth Harrell and William Alonzo Alderfer.  I will make this change.  I am sorry I have nothing regarding Bulber Dunnell, etc.  Good luck with your research!    Hazel


    • Cathie Harrell Fox posted #765

      Thank you

    • Cathie Harrell Fox posted #1339

      A notation I found about a Gabriel Harrell’s death in 9 Sept 1840 in Decatur Co. Indiana. It also names his sons Jacob, ]ohn, and James bought the property. Final settlements 16 Aug 1843. Distribution named Rachel 1/3 wife; Jacob, John, and James 2/3.
      Salt Lake in the FHL Decatur Co. Indiana; Probate Record Book C Court Records Decatur Co. Indiana 1822-1848 p.142 ,p. 194, p.350.

      I compared the notes from the Quaker meeting of White Water monthly meeting of Wayne county Friends p.150 ;it was noted that in a Gabriel Harrell son of Amy Harrell; married Sally Powell .

      In addition, I found a guardianship for the children of Jesse Raymond Harrell 1855 . Nathan Crume was named guardian of Jesse’s children Phillip E ., Sarah Catharine, Almira B., James William, and Winnie Anna Bell. These facts were also found in FHL Salt Lake

    • KathrynBassett posted #1341

      Cathie & Hazel, Have either of you done a FamilyFinder test? Using the Chromosome Browser, I checked with surnames of Fox and Bonner, and neither of you show up (logging in to my father’s account, Norman Gayle Rhinehart). There is one person named John Wilson Harrell, and with him I get “John Wilson Harrell matches you on chromosome 12 from position 9044524 to 16729105 for a total of 11.35 cM” – Not much of a match, but that far back it is probably to be expected. Bill, do you know who that is, and what family? (no Bussell surnames, BTW)

      Here is where you’ll find my Nancy:

    • neillharrell posted #1344

      “The librarian mentioned that they had nicknames…Kutch (Jesse) Harrell”

      I have a Kutch buried at the Harrell cemetery in Bloomfield, Ind

      Kutch, 16666038 b. Apr. 6, 1858 d. Jan. 26, 1861

    • Cathie Harrell Fox posted #1351

      Hi Neil
      Jesse Oren Harrell b. Jesse Oren “Kutch” Harrell
      Birth 6 DEC 1880 • Decatur, Indiana, USA
      Death 15 DEC 1966 • Plymouth, Marshall, Indiana, USA
      Are your related to him? Hope so. Looking for other Harrell’s from that area. If so I have pictures of the family and a few stories that my Dad told about him. I believe my father was the last grandchild to stay with Lucetta Maxson Harrell. By the time my father was born Phillip Edward Harrell. b. 1843 had died. By the way I was at Nara to photo copy the Civil War records of Phillip E Harrell before they all go on line to look through. He mustered out of Indy and had the bad case of measles that he was still ill with at the time. Later he was kicked by a mule in the war which caused a life time of illness and misfortune for the family. Please contact me if you would.

    • beccaburton posted #1354

      A correction and addition in the family of Jacob Harrell 1818-1895:
      Jacob Harrell 1818-1895 born in Decatur Co IN married13 Jan 1842 in Decatur Co, IN to Mary Ann Creamer 1820-1906 daughter of Daniel Creamer b. Ky lived in Clinton Twp Decatur Co, IN (FAG#53993114) and Anna Smyser (FAG#93484185) daughter of Philip and Mary Smyser.
      This Daniel and Anna Creamer are both buried in Butcher Cemetery, Decatur Co, IN) There are some Harrells also buried in that same cemetery. In same cemetery there is Phillip Harrell b 1787-1857 (Phillip Herrall was listed on the 1830, 1840, and 1850 census for Decatur Co IN (I thought it interesting that he had males listed of the same age as Jacob in first two census, may be nothing but interesting). –the 1850 census info says he was born in KY.
      Jacob Harrell 1818-1895 and Mary Ann Creamer were married Jan. 13, 1842 in Decatur Co, IN by Justice of the Peace George Mclaughlin
      also married that same year in same county by same Justice of the Peace: on June 15, 1842 James Harrell married a Sarah Creamer.
      Two of Jacob and Mary Ann Harrell’s children married two of James Burton 1810-1883 and Martha Furguson’s children (these are not correctly listed on your record of children of Jacob Harrell beginning list for Family #10.)
      J. M. (James Matthew) HARRELL b. Jan 10, 1857 d. Aug. 13, 1942 he was a noted farmer of Lagro and Chester townships and became the husband of Rose E. “Dolly” (Burton) daughter of James Burton.
      Martha Jane HARRELL b. Jan. 10, 1857 d. Apr. 23, 1928 m. John W. Burton son of James Burton.
      Found it interesting that it was mentioned on your collaborative that Phillip Harrell lived for a while in Butler Co, OH. James Burton 1810-1883 also lived for a while in Butler County, Ohio.

    • posted #1396

      hi I am at a lost , I been searching for imformation for William Marion Harrell who married Carrie Mitchell for years , he died in lousisana 1n 1938

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